tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post4716869315658431593..comments2024-03-27T12:54:20.598-07:00Comments on The Misadventures Of Super Librarian: Look Within Yourself Little Miss Crabby PantsWendyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-76586832951427264132015-08-15T06:55:13.332-07:002015-08-15T06:55:13.332-07:00The most poised and lucid issue about this topic I...The most poised and lucid issue about this topic I've read. Thank you for writing it. Bona Caballerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08999745390738959715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-22816192723649225142015-08-14T14:40:26.553-07:002015-08-14T14:40:26.553-07:00Kate: My eyes crossed while reading that Newsweek ...Kate: My eyes crossed while reading that Newsweek article. I'm sure there's a reason why they felt the Gamergate contingent was "qualified" to weigh in on something that was happening within the romance community /end sarcasm. The whole thing has me feeling particularly stabby.<br /><br />Kristie: This probably says nothing good about me, but honestly I rolled right past the power dynamic argument when I saw that one starting to get floated around - hence this blog post. The genre doesn't exactly have the best history with such things. We start looking at power dynamics in a lot of the books that seem to be especially popular right now? And.....yeah. Right now I feel too close to it - but it will be interesting to look back in say, 10 years, through a social history context and theorize why Dark Romance, motorcycle gangs, some New Adult, and yes - this Nazi romance gained traction in the marketplace.....Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-43241824514884118212015-08-11T19:12:53.581-07:002015-08-11T19:12:53.581-07:00I'm late to the game one and formulating my th...I'm late to the game one and formulating my thought for a post shortly. For me, the imbalance is only one part of what I find so troubling about this book and not the worst offense for me.<br /><br />I think the uproar is starting now because inspirationals have a smaller fan base even though I know they are one of the bigger sellers. But I'm thinking many regular romance readers haven't heard that much about the subject matter of this book until now, especially with so many weighing on it.Kristie (J)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15743921647882733738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-20077409741228591752015-08-10T18:38:39.925-07:002015-08-10T18:38:39.925-07:00I somehow missed all this while involved in my own...I somehow missed all this while involved in my own little dramas over the past several days, and now I see some of the Gamergate folks are throwing their lunatic 2 cents in. Between this and Donald Trump, I want to crawl under the covers and hide for a good, long time. Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08787848462710742004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-58565547391637625352015-08-09T18:00:48.638-07:002015-08-09T18:00:48.638-07:00And look! Kelly actually READ the book.And look! Kelly actually READ the book.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02495558736099438348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-28942449406684154112015-08-09T16:55:37.853-07:002015-08-09T16:55:37.853-07:00Wanted to point out this post by Kelly which is ve...Wanted to point out <a href="http://instalove.wordpress.com/2015/08/09/just-because-you-can/" rel="nofollow">this post</a> by Kelly which is very, very good. Kelly reads a ton of inspirational romance and she's my go-to source on that particular sub genre. Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-32293398640013616072015-08-09T16:27:30.120-07:002015-08-09T16:27:30.120-07:00Thank you for that quote. That sums up my frustrat...Thank you for that quote. That sums up my frustration quite succinctly. Either a RITA finalist is NBD or it IS an endorsement. Buriedbybooks https://www.blogger.com/profile/13945897945845383252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-80331081980708587082015-08-08T19:22:14.641-07:002015-08-08T19:22:14.641-07:00@Lori - I absolutely understand your concerns. I&#...@Lori - I absolutely understand your concerns. I'm in no way defending the book or the judges who read it. I think that inspie is a category that draws a very specific type of judge and if one were that particular type of fundie right wing Christian* then it wouldn't seem problematic. (They'd be wrong of course but it would never occur to them to even question it). So I think that's your answer.<br /><br />*PS - I'm a Christian of the non right-wing fundy variety and I'm sure a lot of our sort also judged the inspie category too (although I hope, not this particular book) #notallChristians etc etc.Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-82162757843446943652015-08-08T15:36:30.708-07:002015-08-08T15:36:30.708-07:00Regarding the process for the awards, Alexis Hall&...Regarding the process for the awards, Alexis Hall's post (that you linked to upthread), is very, very good (as is the discussion in the comments). I think he absolutely nails the situation with this last paragraph:<br /><i>"If I have any criticism of the way RWA have handled this situation it might be that they’re probably trying to have their cake and eat it. To my mind, you can run it one of two ways. You can either accept that the process by which books are nominated for the RITAs is sufficiently hands-off and unpoliceable that a book’s being put forward to the panel does not constitute an honour or an endorsement, in which case authors and publishers and RWA should stop splashing ‘RITA-nominated” all over things as if it means anything. Alternatively, we accept that that a RITA-nomination does represent the meaningful endorsement of a prestigious industry body, in which case that body should probably take a more active role in deciding who gets that endorsement."</i>aztecladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14857872357667370906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-34799093263594203282015-08-08T14:58:52.517-07:002015-08-08T14:58:52.517-07:00Carolyn: Thank you for stopping by and clarifying ...Carolyn: Thank you for stopping by and clarifying the process. <br /><br />Lori: That's my hope as well - increased awareness, more thoughtful reading. I'm not one to deeply analyze what I read (hey, look at my reviews) - but I also think that admitting the genre features books (some very beloved books!) with problematic elements isn't a bad thing, and it doesn't denigrate the genre as a whole. <br /><br />Kaetrin: Just to reinforce the point you made - yes, the books have to be self-nominated, either by author or publisher. Not every romance published that year gets tossed automatically into the stew. Which is how I explain it to readers when they wonder, "I loved Book X, I can't believe it didn't final!!!" Could be Book X wasn't even entered into the contest.....<br /><br />PK: You're making me relive certain Oscar-winning movies that I found preachy and barely palpable. Thanks for that. Uh, I think.....<br /><br />Lori, again: That's my issue to. I understand better now how it finaled, but that enough of the writers who were judging it rubber-stamped it? But then we've been down this road before. It's not the first WTF book to have finaled for an award, nor will it (likely) be the last. I've got a couple books in my TBR that I got years ago that were award winners and looking at them now? I'm wondering if I'll ever be able to get through them because of the problematic elements/themes/what-have-you. Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-31365796626903196452015-08-08T14:44:45.126-07:002015-08-08T14:44:45.126-07:00Vanessa: Yeah, what you said. I look at something ...Vanessa: Yeah, what you said. I look at something like Dark Romance and think "Cripes, I'm old," but then what about a historical romance where the hero "wins" the heroine in a poker game? Like you said, same issues - does the milder form somehow make it "right?" May clarity visit us both.<br /><br />Lynne & Kate: I think it's perfectly acceptable to question this book, it's place in the genre, and how/why it finaled for an award. I find it pretty deplorable myself. My argument is that sometimes we're so quick to jump into the fray that we don't look ourselves in the mirror. Especially when we find ourselves happily reading sheikh heroes, boss/secretary stories, and mercenary heroes. <br /><br />Amber: I keep hoping that a future RWA board will come to it's senses and reinstate the Romantic Elements category. I hated that move when it happened, and I still hate it now. So many of those books have crossover appeal and SO MANY readers come/came to the genre through books like that - dammit, that category needs to come back.<br /><br />RWA lost me with the "not an endorsement" argument. Even if it isn't (technically), it's going to be viewed that way. The only way it wouldn't be viewed that way is if the RITA is completely divorced from RWA, which isn't going to happen. But I also don't know what RWA can do short of completely rethinking the current processes. I also am a little squirky with the idea of oversight - whether that's by the board, or another body of some sort. RWA has changed, progressed A LOT in recent years. Change has been slow, but it HAS happened. But it wasn't all that long ago that you saw a movement in certain corners to define romance as "one man, one woman." Like all organizations, it's going to be a microcosm of our society at large. That doesn't mean we can't talk about these things, work to change them - but just that people are going to bring their own baggage and beliefs with them and we end up with where we are right now. I'm not sure how to change that - but figure continued dialogue is never a bad thing. Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-78007316877788680432015-08-08T12:02:28.674-07:002015-08-08T12:02:28.674-07:00@Kaetrin: I understand what you're saying, but...@Kaetrin: I understand what you're saying, but I'm still bothered by the fact that 4 people with enormous power in the process (because that's how the process works) read this book and didn't think it was a hot mess. It's seriously problematic in at least 3 ways and they either didn't notice or didn't consider any of those things to be important criteria on which to judge the book in terms of receiving an honor from RWA. That's strikes me as an issue. Whether it's an issue with the readers or the process is the question. Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05851793803155368702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-74016521854948203012015-08-08T07:32:13.497-07:002015-08-08T07:32:13.497-07:00Won't read it. Won't censor it. HOWEVER .....Won't read it. Won't censor it. HOWEVER ....<br /><br />I put this in the category of books/movies/TV of "After School Special". You know, usually dealing with controversial or socially relevant issues and it's a project that gets the green light all the way up the decision-making line BECAUSE of its controversial content. The decision makers congratulate themselves for being so relevant and daring and producing something so serious and for "the good of society." (regardless of the history and atrocity associated). Also known as "Oscar Bait." <br /><br />If the book had been snubbed, that would have created its own controversy -- because then readers/audience members would have been labeled for being "anti-whatever-the-outrage". Hopefully and inevitably, this book will fade into the netherworld of hype backlash and fall on its own (non) merits. PK the Bookeemonsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03478996122841311684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-30551896169578596962015-08-08T01:28:42.863-07:002015-08-08T01:28:42.863-07:00@Lori - not to make excuses, just to provide infor...@Lori - not to make excuses, just to provide information: As I understand it, a book is effectively self-nominated. That is, the author or publisher pay the fee to the RWA and send 5? copies of their book and they're in, up to the 2000 book cap. Then, each book is only read by 5 readers. The top and bottom scores are disregarded and the average of the other 3 rankings becomes the book's overall score. The top 4% of each category become the finalists. So, for this book to be a finalist, 4 people had to like it, and the middle 3 had to like it enough to rank in the top 4%. That's not many people. Once it was in the finals, that it was a first book made it an automatic finalist in the best first book category. It wasn't a separate judging process. That's as I understand it anyway. Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-18492187035715956932015-08-07T19:14:59.463-07:002015-08-07T19:14:59.463-07:00Well said, Wendy.Well said, Wendy.Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-29192803068107541772015-08-07T19:08:58.619-07:002015-08-07T19:08:58.619-07:00Wendy, I appreciate you pointing out that problema...Wendy, I appreciate you pointing out that problematic power imbalances abound in romance novels. That was certainly one of the first things that came to my mind when I read about this book and people's reaction to it. While some books with dodgy consent are on the wrong side of my personal "No" line and I won't read them, there are others that I've loved. I'm sure that will continue to be the case in the future and I don't want to be hypocritical about it. <br /><br />At the same time, for Pete's sake a literal Nazi. Forget the author for the moment, my questions are mostly about the other people involved with this. I'm familiar with the subculture served by Bethany House publishing, so I know why it didn't occur to them that having the story hinge on a Jew converting to Christianity is a problem. Someone should still have know that having the hero be a literal Nazi was a bridge too far.<br /><br />Still, what really bothers me is that the book got high enough marks from enough RWA reviewers to be nominated for not one, but two awards. How did that happen? Presumably not all the reviewers were from inside the same Evangelical bubble that seems to have blinded the publisher, so what was the though process of the folks who gave this thing such high marks? <br /><br />As Amber pointed out, RWA is not a library and the RITAs are an endorsement. This book has multiple problematic aspects and the fact that so many people associated with RWA apparently missed all of them is a little troubling. This outrage will pass, like all the ones that came before it, but I hope that it leaves some increased awareness and more thoughtful reading in its wake.Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05851793803155368702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-60292210336593190082015-08-07T17:48:34.560-07:002015-08-07T17:48:34.560-07:00I'm Carolyn Jewel and a Director at Large of t...I'm Carolyn Jewel and a Director at Large of the RWA Board. I can clarify the process by which books are entered and judged in the RITAs. The isn't a nomination process. The word has been used for years with respect to the RITAs even though it's an inaccurate description of the process.<br /><br />The number of RITA entries is limited to 2000 entries. Authors (but sometimes an author's publisher) pay the RITA entry fee for a book or novella, select the appropriate category, and that book is then entered in the RITAs, assuming the contest has not reached the cap of 2000 entries.<br /><br />The entries are then divvied up among the judges, all of whom are RWA members. Judges read the books that have been assigned to them and score each entry. Books that score in the top 4% of a category (subject to certain limitations) are finalists. There is a second round of judging for all the books that final. That second round determines the winner.<br /><br />As you can see, this is not a nomination process. Members are not voting for books they think should be included in the RITAs. Judges read and score the books that authors decided to enter.<br /><br />I hope that clarifies the issue of how the RITA process works.<br /><br />If anyone has specific questions about this issue (including questions or comments about more than just RITA entries) please feel free to contact me ( carolyn AT carolynjewel DOT com ) or any member of the Board.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09858789421494610124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-85601948395859843202015-08-07T17:26:13.182-07:002015-08-07T17:26:13.182-07:00I get that RWA is trying to take the librarian sta...I get that RWA is trying to take the librarian stance of access for all no matter how repugnant, but I get stuck on the point that a Rita *is* an endorsement. They can disclaim all they want, but nominated books are supposed to be those representing the "best" of their subgenre. Is that really what happens? <br /><br />I'm not super swayed by the consent argument. I do feel that there are some topics, some heroes that are incompatible with the romance genre. I'm fine with a firm line that says anyone actively involved in a genocide cannot be redeemed which means the book cannot have an "emotionally satisfying optimistic ending". There is no statute of limitations on crimes against humanity. It's the reason we still put Nazi war criminals on trial. I can't imagine anyone being ok with a romance between a Japanese woman and a Chinese soldier during the Nanking invasion. Or a Bosnian woman and a Milosevic high ranking soldier. Maybe it's because my grandfather helped liberate a concentration camp or because I was an impressionable teen when I saw Schindler's List. This isn't some quasi-rebellious minor criminal. This is someone who by all standards of decency failed at being a human being. <br /><br />I guess my point is that RWA isn't a library. They aren't restricting someone's access to information as caving to a challenge or not buying a particular book for a library would. They have no problems getting rid of the NRE category. They exclude books ALL OF THE TIME based on content. Why is this any different? Buriedbybooks https://www.blogger.com/profile/13945897945845383252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-44722137469943531472015-08-07T17:20:56.948-07:002015-08-07T17:20:56.948-07:00I've been reading the hitman series by Clare/F...I've been reading the hitman series by Clare/Frederick (aka Jane Litte) and ask myself that same question all the time. These heroes are hitmen! The heroines are victims saved by the heroes! STOCKHOLM SYNDROME! By murderers!<br /><br />I love the series and won't stop reading it. For one thing: fiction. And another, well, there isn't really another that matters (although I could go on about the fabulous heroines).<br /><br />The squick factor is real absolutely. That setting will probably be too soon for another few generations (and she used a real camp? really?) but most of the people who loathe it haven't read it. Fine to be squicked at a concept and not pick up a book and complain about it. But to tell everyone else they must hate it seems off, also it's not a pro-nazi screed so outrage is off. Squick yes, horror, eh, save it for reality--or a pro-nazi, anti-love book. .<br /><br />The other thing about stealing the experience of Jews is odd--I think pulling out the card when you haven't lived through a thing is off. It's related to a concept like collective guilt, I don't buy that we all get to be a part of something that other people did or lived through (and sure, let me whip mine out -- Jewish background, relatives killed in camps--but they're relatives I never met. My grandmother stopped speaking to me when I visited Germany, does that count as cred? No. And her actions and hatred of Germans helped me understand how bogus collective guilt is). Of course if my friend who DID live through Auschwitz and is still alive, or her daughters who had to live with damaged parents, wanted to rant about that book, I'd listen and respect her every word, even if she hadn't read the book. She will never pick up that book. <br /><br />Heck I'll listen and read all the outrage because much of it is articulate and interesting. But I might read the book anyway. I might even like it, though I doubt it because inspies, eh.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02495558736099438348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-90336683286697871422015-08-07T16:37:22.430-07:002015-08-07T16:37:22.430-07:00Thanks, just thanks for saying this.
Allied to tha...Thanks, just thanks for saying this.<br />Allied to that, what concerns me is the mob mentality. Someone points something out that is, yes, wrong, and the hounds bay, and off we go again. I've seen people destroyed by that mentality. Nobody deserves that, not even if they've done whatever it is. <br />It was after the Cassie Edwards case. Sure, she did wrong by plagiarising, but would anybody have given her a fair hearing? Listened to her? Not a chance. They went for blood. <br />The author of this deplorable book about the concentration camp commandant may have done it from sheer ignorance, or from a sense of skewed values. We don't know. Nobody would listen to her even if she tried to explain. Mind you, writing a book takes a long time, and she'd have had plenty of time to think about what she was doing. <br />Was it because she just didn't have the skills to do what she wanted? I mean, we all read and loved "Schindler's Ark" once upon a time. But that was written with enormous skill and sensitivity, and no extra agenda. I don't know because I can't read this one. Like many people, I have relatives who were directly affected by the Holocaust. <br />Motor cycle clubs. I can't read them. But there's no way they could be realistic. There are a lot of essays to be written there, about the clubbable aspects, and the seeming power of the men who belong to them. BTW, my DH belongs to a motorcycle club because he rides and restores classic motorcycles, so even the term makes me shudder. <br />Boss/secretary? I am so with you on those. And no, I can't explain that one.lynneconnollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687025766573756077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-35437267647502204592015-08-07T16:19:26.997-07:002015-08-07T16:19:26.997-07:00Thank you for this post. I've been stewing abo...Thank you for this post. I've been stewing about this issue (unproductively) since RWA. Like most everyone, I agree that the book in question sounds appalling. On the 1 - 10 scale of horrifying and offensive, it certainly seems to rate a 12 or up. But then I think...motorcycle gang heroes (um, yeah, Jax Teller is cute, but...murder, prostitution, drugs, guns) and dark romances set in the world of human trafficking. Human. Trafficking. But I do read and enjoy romances that flirt with the same issues in a much milder form, which makes me feel pretty squicky right now. Not sure what the answer is--not censorship--so I guess I'll just keep stewing and feeling crappy about it until I reach some kind of clarity that I can live with. Vanessa Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14571549124283013391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-65402876552524766162015-08-07T16:15:21.287-07:002015-08-07T16:15:21.287-07:00Just wanted to point out this post by author Alexi...Just wanted to point out <a href="http://www.quicunquevult.com/laws-sausages-the-ritas" rel="nofollow">this post</a> by author Alexis Hall which goes into more detail re: RITA judging. Also some good comments over there. Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-84003679781002896002015-08-07T16:00:14.731-07:002015-08-07T16:00:14.731-07:00Lawless: And I would agree with your last sentence...Lawless: And I would agree with your last sentence, completely. That statement right there is the one that holds water for me. The power dynamic argument is a non-starter for me - not only when we're examining the history of the genre, but also it's present.<br /><br />History is a funny thing. I subscribe to the school of thought that the Holocaust will always be "too soon." But yet I like reading medieval romances where The Crusades come into play. I wasn't alive for WWII, but certainly it was within a lifetime where I was exposed to people who DID live through. Whose families fled their homes to escape persecution and death. People who had family members survive (and not survive) the Holocaust. What would the reaction be to a book like this if it were published 400 years from now? I'm not sure I want to know the answer, but it's a question worth asking.Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-35465829331303721662015-08-07T15:44:22.830-07:002015-08-07T15:44:22.830-07:00Evangeline: And I think this doggy paddle mentalit...Evangeline: And I think this doggy paddle mentality is indicative of any movement that is "us against the world." Romance is SO used to being scorned by the outside that we don't look very closely at scorn (be they macro or microagressions) from the inside. It's that idea of keeping up a united front.<br /><br />We see the same thing within the feminist movement, which has not, generally speaking, addressed issues felt/experienced by WOC or trans women particularly well. Likewise the LGBTQ movement has not always addressed POC and trans concerns/experiences particularly well either.<br /><br />That's not to give romance a free pass, or to justify it. Just to say there's a larger picture out there and that maybe we shouldn't point fingers at something without doing our own bit of self-examination first. Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350052669699480502.post-27645150083647137422015-08-07T15:41:17.614-07:002015-08-07T15:41:17.614-07:00The historical nature of the story makes this a li...The historical nature of the story makes this a little different from your run of the mill boss/secretary or teacher/student dynamic, though, because it's closer to writing about an actual group of people rather than fictional characters. But I agree with you overall point that romance is littered with unequal power dynamics. Outside of BDSM, I'm not usually that interested in power dynamics that implicate consent, and even when there are, say, class power dynamics, there's also a countervailing one of experience. (Thinking of a cross-class m/m by Alex Beecroft.)<br /><br />Ironically, the kind of problematic power dynamics that are common in romance usually aren't common in inspies because they don't rely on sex scenes. Here, it's the cultural and religious appropriation in the SS camp context that's causing the harm.<br /><br />-lawless523Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14187860051812060040noreply@blogger.com